Gender. Is it offensive?

[SachikoMaeda]

This is a topic I bring up since it has been questioned both by myself and a few of our newer players here on CotH.

Lemme make it clear that I am in no way trying to offend aaaaaanyone.

Is it truly offensive to bring gender identity in to characters and choosing a model of another gender to more accurately display a character? Male models for female characters or female models for male characters. The model serves to more accurately display the characters and possibly more along the lines of how they identify themselves. Sadly WoW doesn't exactly allow for all the character customization we could hope for. Humans have those clunky models (even with the redone WoD models) with no sort of means to modify body types or appearance. If patches exist for that, then awesome. Sign me up.

BUT ANYWAYS. I know the staff has explained it amongst themselves a few times and always came to the conclusion it could offend or that it has been abused in the past. What is your stance on all of this, guys?

And in case anyone gets heated, have this picture of a newborn kitten:

[Xigo]

I usually just use models as a categorical 'oh the character's male or female' thing. Could probably help if your character is meant to come off as a certain gender at first sight, could get annoying when you have to keep explaining things to people. TotalRP would be a big help.

I don't see how this is offensive, personally. The only problem would be people being confused.

This doesn't bug me either way. Not sure what I've said in the past, but I know I'm more lax about things these days. I'd be game for letting people choose the model's gender regardless of character's actual gender, so long as it's a meaningful thing and you are prepared for people initially thinking your character is the model's sex.

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On a side note this is like the most buzzword tabloid topic title I've seen in ages on CotH.

[Sorum]

What about boobs? I mean.. all models have boobs, so if a guy is feminine and all, you will have to emote the lack of boobs every time someone comes in RP. It's kinda hard to hide boobs, they are very fleshy and boob like. One way or another... I don't think it'd affect me too much... I am not for this but I am not against it either.. I am just worried that it is gonna cause confusion. Whaaaaaaaaaatever.

[Spiky]

You're trading big biceps and a somewhat square build for big breasts and birth giving hips. One extreme for another. Which makes me think, that it is a really strange request. A person will be playing a male, but they desire a model that doesn't look as big and burly as the default ones, yet they are fine with the breasts and hips for women? So they just desire a female model, or what? If no is the answer, then why is imagination not enough, a TRP description, and subtle references to the characters frail or buff frame, despite the gender of their in-game model?

We have cripples who lack eyes, limbs, ect. Imagination cuts it for such things, why not for as simple a thing as the build of a person? Either way, you'll have to write in the TRP, and in that scenario the female (Really a male) scenario has the most OOC explanation in its future, whereas the male model (Feminine build) does not. People read TRP mouse-over descriptions.


No offense was meant and no ill feelings went into the typing of this message.

[Krilari]

On a side note this is like the most buzzword tabloid topic title I've seen in ages on CotH.

And how. Whew.

Anyways, to the topic at hand. I don't think there's much a case where a female model would logically be more fitting for the opposite-gendered character or vice versa. I could understand if WoW had some better body customization or the like, but in this case the women are very much women and men are very much men. A man who has a feminine resemblances won't have a hefty bosom nor particularly wide hips. Certainly the male models aren't perfect, but in this case I feel like the character's gender should reflect on the model.

[Mathias]

I'll be referring to human characters, since they have ONE OF the biggest difference between genders (monkey men to curvy ladies).

A lot of people have characters that don't fit the male model. If we just looked at it, we would naturally assume that he was some heavy-lifting construction worker or a warrior who spends too much time in the gym, yet we have characters who are not like that. Male characters who are effectively twigs and would snap in half if there was a strong breeze that day, and they still use the male character model, even though the female model doesn't have as much muscle as the male (but did have breasts and a large ass, compared to other models). Not sure why we would make an exception, especially since, no matter which model you use, you either have to use TRP2 or emote for every new person to say "Is a guy. Looks like a lady. No boobs. No huge muscles." You're doing the same amount of work, but if you use the model for what your character really is, it's just easier for everyone, like how we ask for people to use their actual character names instead of using a nickname or a last name, if they can avoid that.

Edit: ARE YOU HAPPY NOW, XIGO?

[Rowgen]

I think that it is simplest to draw the line at male character = male model and female character = female model. Their feminine or masculine traits can be explained in OOC channels or AddOns that provide a description box.

Why? Because once we cross one line, it's much easier to cross others.

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On an unrelated note, I find people defining themselves by different genders very offensive, yep.

[DeadofPool]

GG GG GG

[Xigo]

I'll be referring to human characters, since they have the biggest difference between genders (monkey men to curvy ladies).

Draenei.

[Geoni]

I think at the end of the day the general conclusion is that add ons like TRP2 are meant for things like this because there's only so much the model can show - a specific kind of build, usually buff for the males as was mentioned by Spiky. The misfortune here is that not everyone uses this super wonderful awesome addon that you should certainly be using on a RP server.

[Mathias]

One of the biggest, then!

[Xigo]

One of the biggest, then!

Trolls.

[SachikoMaeda]

"Put it into TRP" is actually a good suggestion.....

... If everyone had it and would read it. You can convey an image much faster with the model than the TRP window. What you see first is the model.

[JVNemesis]

Trolls.

Speaking of

The point is, the dimorphism is pretty significant on most races. Including humans.

And draenei.

And trolls.

And most others.

[Rowgen]

There is again the argument that if your character Doran, for instance, was given a female model, you'd have to specify that they're a MALE and not a FEMALE. Every. Time. You're just trading one explanation for another.