Suicide Resurrection

[MrCandlejack]

So, I asked a question during the Meet n' Greet that me and my guildmates have been discussing for a while, and I've asked Kretol about once. My character, Gatwazzak, asked his cousin to kill him after he killed one of his most dearest friends, filled with grief. Therefore, it was a technical suicide. My guildies and I have been using sapta to visit Gat in the spirit world, and because the main problem with resurrecting a suicide victim is that the spirit doesn't want to be resurrected. Well, a lot of things have been going on after he died, and his friends have been trying to persuade him to be resurrected. Can this be done? I've been told no, but I'd like to talk about it first. I know the main problem is because they don't want people changing their minds. Well, I was thinking there could be some kind of application you send in, so you don't just kill off your character and think nothing of it afterwards. You have to send in the application, have a very good reason, and your character is a bit weaker, because of the immense damage it caused on the spirit.

Any thoughts or arguments?

[c0rzilla]

While I have not been part in this discussion, I...think a special application would be good, and a special process for the resurrection.

Also, I tollllllllld you soooo. You know what I'm talking about, Gat. ;p

[Kiffles]

I'm personally against it, seeing as the soul would probably be dead set (harhar) on those suicidal thoughts. A good explanation of this would be the theory that some paranormal investigators have. When a person is murdered/dies, that energy lingers, and whatever feeling they had been feeling during their time of death is the feeling that perpetuates. If he was feeling suicidal, and his friends were trying to persuade him to come back, there's a very good chance he wouldn't want to, no matter how hard they tried.

But that's just my two cents. Other than necromancy, I can't see a way that someone who killed themselves or wished to be killed could be brought back. If suicidal resurrections were allowed, I'd say have a certain time lapse of a couple of months or so between the time the person committed the act of suicide and the time of their resurrection.

[MrCandlejack]

While I have not been part in this discussion, I...think a special application would be good, and a special process for the resurrection.

Also, I tollllllllld you soooo. You know what I'm talking about, Gat. ;p

Shush, you.

Kiffles, I can understand what you mean, but a lot of things have happened.. that would be a good reason, I think, for Gat to have second thoughts. The technical suicide was.. well, he wasn't thinking clearly, and it was mostly because he killed his friend, who he talked to, and they worked it out, so Gat is.. well, at peace.

[omgpie]

Though one...I would say no.

But if the spirit could be brought back into his body, I doubt it would be long before another suicide takes place.

[MrCandlejack]

Though one...I would say no.

But if the spirit could be brought back into his body, I doubt it would be long before another suicide takes place.

You mean you think Gat would kill himself again? I just explained that the reason he had his cousin kill him was because he killed his best friend. He talked to his friend and made up.

[omgpie]

Though one...I would say no.

But if the spirit could be brought back into his body, I doubt it would be long before another suicide takes place.

You mean you think Gat would kill himself again? I just explained that the reason he had his cousin kill him was because he killed his best friend. He talked to his friend and made up.

IF he wanted him to kill him, it is obvious he did not wish to stay in this world.

Thus bringing him back will go against his very wishes, unless of course he somehow regrets what he has done in his unliving state.

Edit: Of course, this is my opinion.

[BountyHunter]

Yeah, in my opinion, I don't think he could be brought back personally. Suicide is not an easy choice and in order to choose that course of action you would need to be dead set on it and the death would be completely willing, there would no longer be any part of his spirit wishing to come back and thus it wouldn't remain even slightly anchored to the living world.

That idea may be far fetched but, it's my opinion. For someone to die normally one of their last thoughts would be 'I don't want to die' while a person who commits suicide would be more inclined to think 'Finally'.

[Bovel]

I am actually amazed none has asked this yet but; Was it your intention OOCly that Gatwazzak was gonna be ressurected when you took this decision? Or was it simply your plan to kill him off?

I am sort on the same page as Kiffles here, that a spirits state at death will decide how it is in death. A spirit that wishes out of this world will stay away from it, perhaps not even by a concious choice. But I would believe that visiting such a spirit with the use of sapta alone would be nearly impossible too.
As for the necromancy option, death knights are the latest pinnacle of proof that it can be done against the dead ones will. So I'd imagine a suicidal paladin could have been raised as a death knight. But this is the Scourge and Lich King we are talking about, if it is an option to us 'mortals', I don't know.

Though I do have a suggestion for the situation, a compromise of sorts that relies on some certain factors. A temporary ressurection. Gat's death seems like a rather rash decision (even if sure it was the right way) and most of all very self centered one. If he learn then through his friends that their living world is not the same and a bad place without him, that he in his ego-trip left them in peril. He gets a tie to the world again, linger energies that with a help of a healer results in a short time ressurection, IE he gets to haunt the corporeal world with a body until a certain task is done. That task being the safety or happiness of this, or the death of that threat.


Both task and a RL time span has to be set and decided with the GMs.

[Harmonic]

To be honest, part of the thing with suicide is that some part of you, the player, wanted this to happen. So you willingly had him killed off by suicide. This is the sort of thing that we actually put those rules in place for, because it doesn't really make sense to kill off your character like this, then bring them back. First of all, -would the spirit even want to come back-? Probably not.

Second of all... how would this OOCly be fair to the people we've turned down for this reason? It wouldn't.

This sort of thing used to happen all the time when -I- was a newb, and I wouldn't want to see it again. If you did it, others would start to do it just to add a bit of "sadness" to their character. Suicide is a huge deal... such a huge deal that the character involved should just... stay dead.

Remember too, don't get so attached to characters. I've had Rensin dead for... how long now? It's something that really shouldn't be such a big deal. Perhaps roll another Troll, eh? Make new friendships. Break out of your cliques. God knows you guys have cliques.

[MrCandlejack]

Alright, I understand now. This wasn't just for my character, I was just wondering if there was something we could put in place for all players, but I can see that this would cause more trouble than correct some things. I don't regret killing off Gat, because it feels right. A lot of things were happening, and to top it off he killed his best friend. I'll look into that temporary resurrection, if it could be explained to me. Thank you all. :3

[SpiralLateralus]

To be fair though, I don't think Gat would have killed himself. The only reason his cousin did it is because he felt that Gat was already dead. Also, it was kind of my idea that Gat died after the battle. I didn't think the GM's would say "No he can't be resurrected".

I know this because I was the one who killed Gat.

Vol could have said "No" but that is not something he would do ICly.

I think it would be possible to bring him back via necromancy. Most of the undead wanted to stay dead, especially those in the Scourge.

[Miah]

My honest opinion on it is, suicide is a very serious, and penultimate part of a characters life, even more so that death would be.

Ressurection to me in game isnt literally bringing the dead to life, but more bringing someone on the verge of death who has collapsed and resigned themselves to it back to a state where its possible for them to recover.

A suicide is more than resigned to death though and so I can't see any magical effect ever managing to bring them back

[SpiralLateralus]

My honest opinion on it is, suicide is a very serious, and penultimate part of a characters life, even more so that death would be.

Ressurection to me in game isnt literally bringing the dead to life, but more bringing someone on the verge of death who has collapsed and resigned themselves to it back to a state where its possible for them to recover.

A suicide is more than resigned to death though and so I can't see any magical effect ever managing to bring them back

Like I said, necromancy. Darion Mograine killed himself to try and save his father, then he got turned into a Death Knight.

[Miah]

Oh yeah by a necromancer sure but i thaught he meant in a way he would want to be braught back, not torn from the afterlife by some evil guy. ;P