Rigley Rambles: On .addrp and Profiles

[ThePharaoh]

I personally feel that the .Addrp Command was one of the best additions the server has made in a long time. The thing is, -anything- you guys do will get exploited. I don't see a problem with someone wanting a cool set. It was problematic, and more detrimental to RP before hand. If I wanted my level 1 character to look like who he's supposed to be ( A farmer, badguy, leader, or w/e ) I had to have OOC gold to purchase an item. Or I had to use Silver Tokens... But we only got ten, so that was good for one set. I'm not sure about you guys but I often like having multiple sets for my characters because only cartoon characters wear the same thing every day.

And really what's the big harm about people dressing their chars how they want anyway? The biggest issue on the server is clearly the OOC - IC ratio.

Being able to diversify what I want, and being able to find it quickly wihtout hassle from anyone was perfect. So many more pros to .Addrp than there are faults. There are items that not of us all know exist but typing .lo rp sword will show you some cool things that maybe you didn't know existed. Not all of us, Know all the items inside and out and just want to look for something. I hate being dependant on the GMs because you guys are people too. Sometimes you guys aren't on all day, sometimes you're in RP and don't want to do tokens. Why wait when I can just grab my own stuff with .addrp? Bronze tokens I've leveled many characters to 50 without getting chars profiled because I was sick of waiting rediculous amonts of time to get simple character concepts approved because the GM's didn't want to do it. Now we have forum helpers and this makes the system much better.

I think we should clearly keep the .Addrp thing, and bronze tokens. And if its an issue of making sure people adhere by the rules you all as GM's should try to nip it in the bud. Waaaaay easier said than done, but taking stuff away from people who do follow the rules isn't fair. If you have enforcer gm's have them enforce. If someone does something that would grant them a death, Kill them. A lot of issues I think The GM's have is no one wants to be the bad guy to uphold the rules of the server. (besides Grakor) Its how the player-base gets over.

AddRP lets people also have a wider range of sets. Because even if you have a merchant who sells sets, your choices are only limited to whats available same with the vendors in OOC. Back before we had .addrp? All the new characters had to pick from the same sets, you had 8 rogues always running around in that shadow assassin set. Always, or that beast master set. It was ridiculous. We shouldn't limit our options because of the IC currency system which won't work, just like a universal fighting system won't work. It's an excellent idea, and can still be implemented. I've used it buying slaves, and during the auctions. Its fun for that. But buying other things it can be obsolete, for IC currency to work we'd need an IC economy. And we don't have that, we also have limits to what we'd have. Some families, businesses and organizations would be extremely wealthy, and some would be horribly poor, yet these poor people still have access to silver, copper and gold. Money should stay for the most part in limbo as in. "ThePharaoh requests a drink, he drops a few coins on the counter and takes the glass" The number of coins is indiscriminate and isn't the focus of the RP. RP Currency is an RP mechanic, something that either enables you, or disables you, drives you or doesn't. You have people who can buy vehicles, mounts, clothing, fine wine because of their backstory and those who can't. Those who are driven by money because they need it ICly and those who don't care for it, either because they don't need it or they have no use for it. It shouldn't be more than that. There is no point in having a net worth for our characters, too technical and will never hold up universally.


Profiles however, I agree with. My way of thinking goes like this, I'll make a char concept, level him to 50 and try him out with a few sets I add, get his abilities and see if I enjoy the char before profiling him/her. I've seen and RP'd with people who delibertly hide things from the staff and that was never my goal. Because I'd hate to get x amount of days months weeks into RP and have to retcon it because it didn't adhere with the rules. However due to everyone's different interpretation of what wow's vague lore explains I don't think we'll all come together on every topic. I have the utmost respect for you Diver Dood but I disagree sir. I hope the staff never considers taking away .Addrp. Bronze tokens? Do what you will.

[Harmonic]

Clothing should -never- be detrimental to RP.

It's nice to have, but if you "can't RP without it" what does that say about the quality of RP? After a while, that sort of idea comes off less like "An RP reason" to have it, and more like dress-up.

I understand liking items, since I get to be an item--hoarder myself... but it's -not- detrimental even slightly. Again, if it is... then we really need to try reading more, as not -everything- amazing needs to have a graphical representation associated with it.

[c0rzilla]

No one is complaining about people having lots of sets, or dressing up. We're just looking for incentives to get people more active with profiles and contributing. Using RP clothing as a tool seems to be a good idea.

That's all. And what Rensin said.

[Aadora]

Just going to point out...

It's suggested we put a limit on .addrp, bunch of people like the idea.
It's then said we shouldn't do anything. bunch of people like the idea.

This whole conversation seems really up and down, with no one really knowing what we want. One second we are all agreeing we should change it and then we are agreeing that we shouldn't do anything.

Personally, I agree we should do something to .addrp.

Pharaoh , you say that a problem would be that some would have monry while others don't?

Well, that is a real situation people have to deal with every day. What is the point in even RPing currency, if everyone always has enough for what they want?

Though that's just my opinion.

not -everything- amazing needs to have a graphical representation associated with it.

But that's the reason that we RP ingame, and not just through typing.
Sure, some things don't have graphical representation, and we live with it.
But clothing is an important part of the RP.

As it was said in the past...

If I wanted to close my eyes and play pretend, I would RP over Skype.

[Xigo]

...

Is roleplaying over Skype, like, terrible or something? I find it more fun than RPing in-game at times.

That comparison between Skype and 'playing pretend' just bothers me every time I read it.

You need your eyes open to roleplay on Skype anyway.

[Piroska]

For me, the ideal system would:

1. Encourage players to post profiles. From what I read in this thread, the vast majority of people appear to like a profile system (though the specifics regarding that system differ), though it would be unfair to claim that this is representative of the entire server. I would prefer that the system provide incentives that directly impact that character -- and only that character -- rather than establish restrictions, but if those restrictions were limited I'd probably be content.
   
2. Retain use of the .addrp command. I love it and I don't want to lose it. We're roleplayers and we love the ability to easily portray our characters as close to our vision of them. I feel that removing this would immediately and negatively impact people's willingness to roleplay. If another system were somehow put in place, it would have to retain the autonomy of .addrp; the staff has better things to do than creating gear for every player's every character.
   
3. Not impede newcomers' abilities to roleplay. The ultimate goal for Conquest of the Horde is to provide a place for likeminded people to roleplay. New players increases the likelihood of roleplay while replacing the numbers that we lose to periodic bans, real-life interference, and malaise. If we place too many barriers in front of newcomers, they'll leave after a short period of time or not apply to join the server entirely.
   
4. Encourage more roleplay. Roleplay is good. Roleplay is great. Any benefit gained from submitting a profile for approval should encourage roleplay. For example, while being able to obtain "real" versions of gear (in other words, pieces retaining their stats) may result in more people submitting profiles, it doesn't directly benefit roleplay. In fact, it could harm it: gear with stats is intended for PvE scenarios since statless versions are easily acquired through .addrp; it's very likely that roleplay is occurring dungeon running or raiding, which lessens the roleplay currently active on the server at that moment.

Clothing should -never- be detrimental to RP.

You may believe that (and I may even agree with you), but there are people who obviously and firmly believe that the inability to wear clothing will impact their willingness to roleplay. And, frankly, I would prefer to avoid placing more barriers to roleplay and will kowtow to their requests if it means more roleplay occurs.

To my knowledge, .addrp is somewhat unique to Conquest of the Horde. Why remove something that draws more players to our community?

[Lunaxy]

I agree, and don't agree with ThePharaoh's post.

Sure, the .addrpitem command is amazing, it allows us to have a large variation of items. But... Yet still, oh how I'd wish to see a spontaneous merchant character coming into Hearthglen tavern with a variation of cloaks and then everyone starts to fight over it, "Oh man, I want that one! No me!" ... But I'm getting out of the point, profiles.

You know, as it was stated in the suggestion, you would still be able to add a set before approval/profile, and why can't you RP with that set until you finally write your character's profile? Our characters aren't cartoon and wear the same thing everyday, no, but not every characters need a different clothing every day, too. I myself tend to play 'dress-up' a lot, often making various sets for my various alts, but that doesn't means it would kill my RP to remove the command after certain number of uses.

[GeneralDefyre]

Now, I didn't have time to read every reply thus far, so apologies if this has been stated already.

I agree full-heartedly with you Rigley, and wish there was some way to make profiling and the .addrp commands better for CotH as a whole, providing simple and easy access to RP, yet at the same time keeping their value and importance.

So, I have somewhat of a suggestion the GM Team may like to debate over.

--Make the .addrp command only available to grunts.

--Make obtaining gruntship slightly more difficult. I can't come up with an exact way to achieve this, but maybe someone else can come up with an idea?

That's my two copper, and again, I apologize if this was already stated earlier in the thread.

~GeneralDefyre~

[Rigley]

If I wanted to close my eyes and play pretend, I would RP over Skype.

Allow me to say just this: I really dislike this comparison. A few restraints on in-game RP does not equal text RP. I can never make Rigley's house look how I think it should. Or Rigley himself. But I'll still RP him. I think it's looking through a very close-minded perspective to say "We've got a restraint on how our visuals can look? Well gosh. Time to RP through AIM." If that were the case I'm not sure any of us would RP in-game, because graphics are always going to come short of how we envision a concept to look.

I'm very much of the same belief as to what Rensin posted; I just don't think any clothing should prevent a person from being able to RP their characters. But that's a discussion for another place.

And I believe it's been stated already that we won't be removing either the .addrp nor the bronze tokens.

[Aadora]

I'm not saying:

"Oh can't have every single thing represented ingame then I'm not playing ingame!"

I'm saying that what we -can- repesent, we -should- represent.

[Lunaxy]

In regard to General's post,

Honestly, I think the point is making players work harder/work more on profiles, not making it harder for new players. What prevents the grunts from being simply, "Oh, I'm already a grunt. So I can just really make every set and alt I want without making a profile."

Kretol's suggestion, posted by Rigley, is the best option, really. Limiting it per character and not per account/Peon or Grunt. I still think it might be limiting to new players, but eh.

[Aadora]

Limiting to new player, sure... but that just pushes them to become a grunt even more.

But think about it this way...

If I want to make a level 1, and I don't like the set I used...

What's to stop me form just deleting, remaking, and getting a whole new set?

What about this system:

Level ones can't use .addrp
People who have taken a token to level 50, have limited use of .addrp
People with approved characters at level 80 have full use of .addrp.

[Reigen]

...Maybe make the command available/unlimited at level 51 and allow peons to get their profiled characters leveled to 51 where as bronze tokens will still make you level 50? That way we're not limiting new players who make profiles before they're a grunt.

Edit: As in, a peon profiles and gets a character approved. A GM would then level them to 51 - as opposed to the grunts 80 - where the command is available. People can still buy bronze tokens for their alts, but the tokens only level you to 50, so you still need to profile the character to go above 50.

[Harmonic]

I'm not saying:

"Oh can't have every single thing represented ingame then I'm not playing ingame!"

I'm saying that what we -can- repesent, we -should- represent.

I understand that.

However, I think a visual representation can even be weaker than a well-worded one, mostly because it also relies on what imagery the reader puts on it. When I write about Rensin, and what he looks like... he only SORT OF looks like the in-game model.

And, how I perceive what he looks like in my mind, may be different than that of what people see when they read about him. I love the idea of this illusion, and when you throw graphic representations in the mix... it can -aid- those descriptions, but I go even a step further and say "Here's how he actually looks."


I have felt, and I will always feel that clothing in regards to RP isn't pivotal to the actual substance behind RP. Not everything needs to be The Lord of the Rings, movies, sometimes I'd rather it be the Lord of The Rings books.

Why? What I see when I read those books is -much, much- more epic than that epic movie. What's that say about how I perceive my roleplay?


Edit: And Riegan, the ability to make one item set before making a profile is perfect compromise. Anything else could just be needless padding.

We could also give them a small gold chunk for like 300 gold, but.. why would we need to? Does that make sense?

[Aadora]

Beat me to it.