Conquest of the Horde

We have all either seen or heard of it, two combatants locked in combat. The Victor is unknown, and the stakes are high. They exchange blows back and forth, neither able to get the upper hand… And 45 minutes later, neither side has taken a serious injury because neither one wants to loose, or worst, die.

This is an issue that can arise during trust duels, and it’s understandable why. No side rolls dice, both players trusting that the other will play fair, and allow some hits to take place. The sad truth is trust duels can be one of the most frustrating RP experiences. So I have made a practical guide that may help trust duels stay an epic combat, and not an annoying exchange of blows.


1- Determine each characters relative level of skill compared to their opponent:
This can be done in party chat, whisper, or even through a clever use of emotes. This is to ensure that descriptions of blows stay somewhat accurate to skill difference.
Ex. Little Timmy’s novice knight would not be able to nimbly dodge every attack by Big Mike’s seasoned assassin.

2- Determine the victor of the duel (Optional):
This can be done through dice roll, rock paper scissors, pick a number, and what not. The important thing is not how you decide victor, but who the victor is. This will ensure that there will be a foreseeable end to the duel and not a mindless throwing of blows. Also keep in mind, the planned victor is tentative and can be subject to change.
For example, I was in a trust fight with someone where a victor was chosen (me). at the end of the fight my opponent performs a combat roll to my right and throws two daggers at me. My character is blind in the right eye and would not have seen both daggers in time to avoid both. Needless to say, I lost the fight.
Ex. Little Timmy looses in a roll off to Big Mike to see who would win the fight.

(I would encourage determining this via whisper to not spoil the surprise of onlookers.)

*Know when to lose:
If you decide to forgo determining the victor, be sure you know when to lose.
As Rensin poetically put it "There's gotta be some moment where your character can't pull off that epic backflip and gets struck in the junk with a fireball. That might be time to say 'YEP he'd probably just ball up and cry now.'"

3- Determine the end result of the duel:
Nothing special here, just decides if the duel will end in player death, maiming, minor wounds, and so on. By doing this it insures that both players get to chime in on ideas of how to end it.
Ex. Since Little Timmy lost the roll he knows he will lose the fight, he works it out with big mike that the duel will result in him being left with a hideous scar on his face.

(I would encourage determining this via whisper to not spoil the surprise of onlookers.)

4- Determine how the fight will proceed:
This is where the player takes it upon him/herself to decide how the fight may go for the character. This is not a hit by hit plan of the fight, but more how your character will perform during the fight. This should be based off your players own personal abilities. Also keep in mind that even the best laid plans fall apart after first contact, so be flexible.
Ex. Little Timmy decides that it is within his characters ability to start the combat out strong and tapper off as he tires.

5- Have fun with it:
Trust duels can be some of the most entertaining RP experiences one could have. Don’t get discouraged if it is decided you will lose a fight, use that opportunity to flesh your character out further. Sure Little Timmy may have lost this fight to Big Mike, but as a result, Little Timmy started to step up his training and eventually becomes a master at arms of Stormwind.

How a pre-duel discusion might play out.

Little Timmy (LT): My character is a novice knight, though he regularly surpasses his fellow knights in training, he has no real combat experience.

Big Mike (BM): My Assassin was trained at a very young age in the art of combat, he has conducted many assassinations as is considered one of the best duelists in his guild.

LT: Ok, so you are probably going to show a lot more skill in combat than I will. Roll for Victor?

BM: Sounds good (Roll 83)

LT: (Roll 27) Damn, guess you win.

BM: How do you want it to end?

LT: I don't want him to die... can you live with a hideous scar across the face?

BM: Can do.

Little Timmy decides that his character, because of his lack of combat experience, would likely throw everything he has into the start of the fight, but tire as the fight draws on longer than he thinks it should.

LT: You attack first, Ready?

BM: Set!

Violence ensues!

It's a good thought. Pretty it up a bit with text formatting to make it easier on the eyes, though!

I like the idea, but I disagree on some of the points; 2 to a lesser extent, and 4. I wholeheartedly agree with 1, 3 and 5.

Let me preface this by saying I never trust duel anyone I don't know and have played with multiple times before; thus actually trusting them to play their characters properly.
Deciding a victor of a duel isn't really that bad, but from my own experiences it tends to ruin the immersion. I wouldn't really want to do X if I knew the outcome of it, not just fights. I often find, when both parties adhere to common sense, combat tends to quickly and heavily favour one player. This is often played well, and the silent agreement that X is going to win or lose is what I usually experience.
Point 4 I find would ruin the fun a bit for me. It reminds me a bit of a scripted event: you seem to be watching something rather than playing it, like a film compared to a board game. Perhaps very loose guidelines? I dunno.

Thought I'd give a counter argument to some of the points from my own experiences/preferences.

Much better. Just change the colours of the Pre-Duel dialogue, as they're a bit dark and hard to read!

I can see how this can help some people, but usually in regards to trust fights I do 'em with people... I trust. That leaves there to be little discussion about what's going to be in the fight, because often times me and the other person (USUALLY Rofupi because we love to trust fight together... Mmm, one on one trust fights with Krentcakes <3) like to surprise eachother with what our characters do. Basically, if you trust a person enough, you don't even really need the discussion of "what's fair for me" because you know that person will do justice.

One thing I will put in there... know when to lose. There's gotta be some moment where your character can't pull off that epic backflip and gets struck in the junk with a fireball. That might be time to say "YEP he'd probably just ball up and cry now."

(06-15-2012, 08:32 AM)Vee Wrote: [ -> ]I like the idea, but I disagree on some of the points; 2 to a lesser extent, and 4. I wholeheartedly agree with 1, 3 and 5.

Let me preface this by saying I never trust duel anyone I don't know and have played with multiple times before; thus actually trusting them to play their characters properly.
Deciding a victor of a duel isn't really that bad, but from my own experiences it tends to ruin the immersion. I wouldn't really want to do X if I knew the outcome of it, not just fights. I often find, when both parties adhere to common sense, combat tends to quickly and heavily favour one player. This is often played well, and the silent agreement that X is going to win or lose is what I usually experience.
Point 4 I find would ruin the fun a bit for me. It reminds me a bit of a scripted event: you seem to be watching something rather than playing it, like a film compared to a board game. Perhaps very loose guidelines? I dunno.

Thought I'd give a counter argument to some of the points from my own experiences/preferences.

I appreciate your input!

I understand your argument about common sense about victor and common sense, and I would agree that if both players know what they are doing there is no need to determine victor ahead of time. But, as many will contest, there are many who don't know what they are doing and need that push in the right direction. I really only added this because I have seen so many duels starting out with player X saying "I'm going to win." That kind of mind set is no fun for trust duels. Also, this can account for the lucky strike by the lesser skilled player... it happens

As for your second point I really only meant for it to be in general terms. Not to have a fully choreographed duel before you begin, but a general idea of how the duel might play out.

Overall though, these are guidelines, take what works for you and leave the rest

---

(06-15-2012, 08:55 AM)Rensin Wrote: [ -> ]One thing I will put in there... know when to lose. There's gotta be some moment where your character can't pull off that epic backflip and gets struck in the junk with a fireball. That might be time to say "YEP he'd probably just ball up and cry now."

You sir had just been quoted

Well personally I don't think people should play a character that is supposed to be a great fighter, if they don't know how to fight themselves.

Not saying it shouldn't be allowed... just that you can't expect people to agree to your character winning if you RP the fight badly. And by badly I don't mean generally bad RP, I just mean with little knowledge of how to actually fight. Want to make a Blademaster? Have some knowledge of how to use a blade.

I personally in trust fights prefer to base the victor over who has better emotes. If I emote I throw a rock at you, and you emote that you cut the rock in half and charge forward with blinding speed bringing your blade in an upward arch as you come to a halt just in front of me... then it's obvious you are winning at that point.

More detail and logical fighting determines the outcome in my opinion.

But... how many of us -really- know how to fight? I can say for sure... I sure as hell don't. I know how to point and shoot a gun but that's about it.

You don't have to be a master of Melee weapons to know that if you swing a sword at someone from the right angle they are less likely to be able to dodge it. And that needs to be taken into account. I think too many people look at the fights as a "they are attacking I can dodge or not dodge perhaps I will flip a coin" type deal.

What I mean by bad RP is if you are constantly attacking them in ways that make it easy for them to dodge or block your attacks. The person who should win the RP is the one who emotes the best attacks that make sense, such as attacking someone from the side they have a broken arm on.

And the people should make these emotes within the ability of their characters.

(06-15-2012, 09:32 AM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]More detail and logical fighting determines the outcome in my opinion.

There are some people who know how to fight, they are just not great at emoting there actions (guilty). In some, or even many, cases you may be able to determine who the victor is based on emotes quality. This would likely be the case for veteran trust fighters. In other cases, you may have a novice trust-fighter who really like the immersion of trust fights. Is it really fair to for him to loose every fight because he is not as skilled of an emote-fighter as others?

Perhaps if you aren't very good at trust fighting you shouldn't fight as a character that is likely to win.

It's just my opinion though, because I don't think the fight should be decided beforehand, otherwise the feeling of being right on the edge or winning or losing isn't there, because even when that moment comes, you already know what is going to happen.

(06-15-2012, 09:51 AM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]What I mean by bad RP is if you are constantly attacking them in ways that make it easy for them to dodge or block your attacks. The person who should win the RP is the one who emotes the best attacks that make sense, such as attacking someone from the side they have a broken arm on.

And the people should make these emotes within the ability of their characters.

Oh, never mind, I'm picking up what your throwing down. None the less, I still stand by my guidelines, though they may not be for everyone.

I DO FENCING.

I TOTALLY HAVE THE ADVANTAGE NOW.

(06-15-2012, 09:54 AM)Aadora Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the fight should be decided beforehand

Then don't decide a victor before hand. In fact, I will edit the second point as optional. Keep in mind, these are not rules set in stone, just an aid.

There are many factors involved with the actual fighting, yes, but I think that diverges from the original point, which was requiem trying to give advice for how to do trust fights, not the actual content OF a fight. While yes, things like "Knowing when you're defeated" may flirt the edge of content, this guideline/suggestion thread gears more towards the relationship between those in the fight.

Basically... there's a lot of things people should take into account when doing -any- sort of fight, rolling or trust. Roll fights tend to have the flaw that people don't put thought in it, trust fights tend to have the flaw that people often only trust those they've encountered multiple times or have history with on the server.

BACK on topic, I think these are good suggestions. While not the absolute way it should always be approached, it's a good way to get to the point where trust is built between people so they don't have to sort through these kinds of rules and can just do whatever without much worry as to what the other person will do.